2016年11月19日荷兰航空公司使用歧视性话语和刁难两位七旬老人的前后经过

你好!全程不陪同翻译,拒绝尝试找翻译的企图,不是歧视是什么?在CHECK IN 时候得用词用语,以及对我父母的态度, 看录像就知道; 我父母没有大声说话,老年人也没有过激行动,根本没力气。

而且在换登机牌的时候,已经距离他们邮件通知一个小时,为什么提供这张软纸登机牌?时间不变? 我们当时根本不知道航班晚点,哪里来的及看,他们肯定接到通知航班晚点,为什么不进行告知?为什么不备注航班晚点?不然我们还可以陪老人一会儿的。

航空公司回复邮件说随机行李是18-20KG; 其它姑且不论, 如果按12KG准入,贴黄标作为依据, 就算行李箱是最大值12KG(我爸得箱子是10KG多一点),相信安检过关扫描处也有留影,可以预估重量; 再加上一个只有帽子和围巾的花背包会有多重? 光这一点就不吻合了。

我用过这种纸质的。这个没问题。

  1. 写正式投诉信,用signed for
  2. Citizens Advice
    3)Ombudsmen/Watchdogs
  3. MP

总之如果一定要个说法,做好持久站准备。

我不是专家。做参考:

  1. 翻译。你可以坚持说你父母可以让同机的中国人翻译,但被拒绝。 质疑他们为什么拒绝。

klm家的网上说: it is not possible. 如果有特殊需要,提前48小时申请。mportant before departure

It is not possible to arrange assistance for passengers with a language barrier, fear of flight or first time travellers.
You need to request special assistance (and book your flight) at least 48 hours before departure. If your flight will be operated by one of our partners, please request special assistance from this airline. KLM will transport your own wheelchair (scooter) or walker - free of charge.

  1. 登机卡。 好像按计划显示,不会按延误的预计时间来。 即使航班延误了,旅客也不能在家等。这个是从berlin airline 抄的:
    We are unable to check in passengers arriving at the check-in desk after the check-in deadline. These passengers lose their entitlement to be carried on the flight and do not have any right of reimbursement, issue of a credit note or free rebooking. This check-in deadline will remain the same even if the departure of the flight is delayed.
    你和 klm确认一下是不是一样的。

好的,谢谢亲

谢谢, 我们不可能得到邮件知道航班晚点,荷航地勤始终也未告知航班晚点,导致我们都不能多陪父母一会儿。

不用太纠结文字,任何事情都有 common sense , 从法律字眼降就是treat others fairly. 投诉不一定有结果,不投诉一定没有结果,加油! 你坚持要说法就就能有说法,不坚持肯定什么也没有。 甚至你持续投诉,让那天的地勤被解雇也未尝可知。

你没有证据啊。他们是有的证据:

首先是数量,记卡上写的是:带轮子的,不包括小花包。然后就开始滚雪球到最后情绪不稳定(比如吃救急药等)。

至于重量: 也不是主观的你认为多少, 他们有称。

我不是给klm 辩解,只是帮你整理思路。不要误会。

我给他们打过交道,几年前飞机坏在德国了,我就按他们的规则来,最后他们家道歉并赔免费航班。 直接扔垃圾桶。

你一定要把各种证据保留好。会需要的。

你不要去纠结旁枝末节,你们和客服的吵架等都与拒载没有直接的必然关系,航空公司绝对不会愚蠢到说因为你们吵架就拒载你们的父母,你要抓住核心的东西,就是让他们给你一个书面的拒载理由,到底是因为什么拒载?他们肯定要给理由的,通过书面理由再一节一节去剥皮,假如说是因为超重18公斤,那就调录像,假如说是因为多了一个没有在柜台检验过的包,那就问他们为何放弃包还不让过,即使不让过,也只能是不让一个人过,为何拒载两人。如果回复说老人沟通不行,大吵大闹,那就通过微信,找出当时目睹场景的中国人协助作证,为何客服在无法和老人沟通的情况下还拒绝其他旅客的翻译帮助。
你需要通过律师,最好是英国律师,因为我怀疑国内律师可能打这个官司不行,语言上都是问题,另外对英国这些调取录像的程序等都不懂。律师写律师信直接要航空公司给理由,他们必须要认真回复的,拿到回复后再一步一步去对付他们,不然你现在把很多旁枝末节都混在一起了,就不容易分清主次了。
你们夫妻俩和客服的吵架,已经有警局备案了,那个与拒载是一种间接的证明,但是本身这个备案都还没法得出结果,到底是你老公歧视还是客服欺侮旅客,所以这些旁枝末节都可以暂时放到一边。
航空公司给你的回复,你最好贴出原文,如果已经阐述了他们的理由,那就让律师或者网友分析一下,接下来怎么打官司,如果没有给出确切理由,那就最好由律师写信去要理由,或者你自己写都可以,律师信应该花费不多,估计200镑应该差不多了。

任何一家服务性的公司,作为公司道德来说,都不能在能够给客户提供方便的情况下,而故意去刁难顾客,导致客户产生损失,特别是这种利用语言障碍来欺侮老人的事情,对于这家公司来说,就是彻彻底底的丑闻,就一个包,完全就可以协助老人扔垃圾桶,举手之劳,在老人下跪的情况下,还是欺侮到最后,已经彻底的没有了职业道德和个人道德了。你一个航空公司难道还有英国海关牛吗?英国海关都还允许其他中国人协助帮忙翻译,你一个航空公司在登机的时候居然利用语言障碍来故意羞辱刁难老人,这已经不单单是道歉的问题了,如果你找到够好的律师,这个客服不单单是赔礼道歉,也不单单是丢工作的事情了,会留下犯罪记录的,我不知道是什么罪名,利用职务便利,给客户造成损失及造成人身和精神的伤害,具体的法律条款及罪名让律师去找。
你最好在找到他们的书面回复和其他证据的时候,再报给国内的新闻界,不要轻易出手,以免被动或者他们去找理由掩盖,另外就是你要确定好两个手提行李没有超重,我们分析来分析去也是建立在这个基础上的,因为我知道很多旅客都是在办完托运之后,再把一些多的行李,比如巧克力等,再尽量放一点进去手提行李的,只要手提行李不超尺寸,航空公司一般很少查,你这个也最好确定,不要你最后塞了几盒巧克力进去,那官司就不好打了。

登机拉杆箱,称重记录有20公斤我也是醉了。 我天天扛包运箱子。如果18公斤手提行李扛一路,我都坚持不下来。 别说70岁老人了。

巧克力机场商店都有,我临时再买2口袋带上飞机也不会有问题的。这个问题关键是故意寻衅滋事,不是为旅客排忧解难。

我飞这个KLM航班的经验,超重不是事,手提行李也给免费托运的。 其实这客服一开始就和楼主一家杠上了。就是没事找事

是这样, 但不该对两位老人下手,七十多岁,还有心脏病; 作为女儿,我现在还在深深自责和难受,不要讲老年人的心里压力了,不知道要多久才走的出来。现在只想 尽全力索回一些公道。

那俩箱子都很小, 我爸提的超级小。哎,心疼无语。

好,为这次丧尽天良的虐人事件,我一定要坚持到底要一个说法,不能让恶人逍遥法外。

好的,谢谢亲提醒,也在大家的答复中寻找问题答案,谢谢了。

11月7日致电荷兰航空英国客服, 答复是乘客常住地属于中国,需回中国投诉。
随即致电荷兰航空中国客服, 帮忙记录并答复,需要待投诉部门上班后再打电话。

11月8日, 早上再次致电荷兰航空中国客服, 08:18分对方给了建档编号。
Thank you for taking the time to call us today and share your concerns.
We are in the process of studying your request and we will answer you within 5 days.
Should you wish to provide us with any additional information, please quote your file number above.

We greatly appreciate all your feedback and we will do our very best to improve ours services. All throughout your journey, you experience is what counts!

11月9日在上述档案内添加了:
To whom it may concern, KLM Birmingham had no reason to stop my parents from boarding the plane on NOV 6. Both my parents are above 70 years old, my mom is also a little deaf My mom cant’ understand why she was stopped due to a very light and small back pack less than 500 gram. Plus, She has no cash at hand,. but the check in people can only speak English. My mom can only explain with her gesture, to show.there was nothing heavy (including hat, scarf and backpack). Obviously, She was a little panic because the plane refused to let her board at the last moment she wanted to go back home to China and worried about the result if she can’t return to china. But anybody who can’t speak the language in a foreign country, and was stopped in a last moment ,and was refused to board the plane of course will panic,even young people. On the boarding pass KLM checkin people write down a notice , trolley bag only . But they can also carry a light bag that can put underbeneath the seat. My mother’s backpack satisfied this requirement, KLM has no reason to stop her from boarding the plane. As an international plane flying to China. they Should have had someone there who could speak Chinese to explain to my mom what happened. If worse to worse , and my mom couldn.t take that light backpack, she,said she would give up that bag. And if KLM couldn,t find anybody to speak Chinese, and KLM wanted to charge my mother for this light bag (less than 500 gram), they could have always charged them when they arrived back in china, or sent me a receipt.to pay. it They are only harmless old people, no weapons, no fighting, why stop them boarding the plane. My mom and dad do not have a lot of travel experience and due to the bad behaviour of the klm check in staff at Birmingham panicked at not being allowed to fly home and i would also like to know why my father was also refused there was no issue with him and yet he was also refused.the money for both tickets should be payed back to us, as you had no right to refuse them over something so trivual Awaitng your response before taking further action. . We will not be letting this go.
再次添加档案后,系统自动答复邮件:
We are in the process of studying it and will answer you within 10 days.
Should you wish to provide us added information, please quote your file number above in any
correspondence.
接下来把上述英文发到荷航FACEBOOK.
对方答复:
thank you for contacting us with your elaborate message. We can see that we have previously been in contact with you and * about this situation. As we mentioned in our last message, a Customer Care file was created and you will be contacted by our Customer Care team as soon as possible. In the meantime, we ask for your patience.( 他所说是FACEBOOK,同步发生)。

11月11日答复KLM FACEBOOK:
Hello, Thank you very much for your swift reply. On NOV 6 , I got two email notices at 15:24 telling me the plane was delayed. But we were driving to the airport during this period, so didn’t get this information . When we arrived at the airport, I explained to the check in lady and explained to her we got caught in a traffic jam and struggled to find a parking space and asked her can we check in ASAP because we thought the plane was leaving in 1 hour, But the lady serving us was really very impatient and didn’t bother to tell us the plane was delayed then she mumbled under her breath (SOMETHING CHINESE ALWAYS CAUSING TROUBLE) this is the reason my husband had a word about her attitude, she then told my husband to shut up, he replied telling her to shut up, then she called him an idiot so he said no you are the idiot my husband then walked away and left the checking in area to stop any further argument.

When we was walking out of the exit door, the check in ladies all walked out together, The lady had words again with my husband and used some dirty words again calling him an idiot . Then I said ‘You are not decent people to talk like that. I have worked as a customer service in an airline ticket office, sometimes you will meet some impatient customer . No matter what happened, in this role. I don’t think it’s correct to use rude words to shout back, for this case. that’s rude too.

My mother has an heart problem, and is a little deaf they waited for the plane a long time, she couldn’t understand why she was being stopped due to a very light bag ,that only had some papers in , and were panicked by the result if she can’t fly back to china. Her heart got scared and felt energyless at the last moment. This is the reason she collapsed. And the police helped her to sit down and have the medicine she had got with her.

When we were on our way back home, the plane had still not departed, the check in lady called me and asked why my mom is shouting, i informed her my mother is a little deaf and always speaks loudly she then told me that she won’t let my mom fly. and also said that I said some dirty words. i said i did not and she insisted i did .They stopped my parents boarding the plane for a light bag that could have gone under the seat,after we returned home very late, I found out they had specially marked words on the boarding ticket saying trolley bag only . That’s clearly abuse and singling out my parents.
Before I always thought KLM was a very good company. I didn’t expect such impatient behavior and revenge from a member of your staff , if your parents went abroad and couldn’t speak the local language , and was abused at the checking desk and then stopped before the plane gate for no reason at the last minute, what kind of reaction can be expected?

We bought the ticket for my parents to flydirectly from London Heathrow to Chengdu the next day with BA. they took the same bags, same luggage with no issue.

After all the abuse we received , especially for old people, I sincerely ask for a ticket refund. I would also like to make a complaint about the lady who abused us at the check in desk and also as we were leaving the airport, she is a representetive of your company and to behave like that is very bad and unproffesional behaviour and sets a very bad immage for klm.

对方答复:
thank you for elaborating. We will forward your side of the story to Customer Care as well. This way they have both sides of the story documented. Our Customer Care department will be in contact, then will decide whether they will provide you with compensation or not. We cannot influence their situation.

两封回复反复用ELABORATING!!!

其后继续在系统里添加:
如果KLM伯明翰负责登机检查人员(那位恶意报复的CHECK IN 人员)在最后时刻有权因为我父母是一起飞行而同时拒绝我父亲登机的话; 凭什么不可以视同我母亲身上的背包为我父亲携带? 我父亲的登机箱子很小,重量和体积都小于正常标准很多, 即便加上那个花背包,总重量也不足12KG.

老年人不会英语,只能凭借当时他们的手势,看出是要钱; 但我父母不会英文,身上也没有英镑现金,我母亲比手势请他们找中国人翻译,他们也拒绝配合。 当时我母亲试图联系我几次,但因为我在开车返程途中(我老公手才做了手术,不能开),无法接听; 最后停泊在路边的时候, 接通我母亲的电话, 飞机还没起飞,机场人员说要了解一下,问为啥我母亲情绪激动, 为啥大声说话; 我说我母亲耳朵背, 他们说再了解一下; 过会儿再打电话的时候就是那个CHECK in的女的, 说我们现在不让你母亲登机了,我说凭什么? 她说,你刚才说脏话,我说我没有。 请推想一下,这难道不是报复么?

请航空公司看全程机票订购记录, 我父母前往英国的时候,为了他们乘坐舒适,特地全程购买了‘座椅空间增加’费用; 我们没有想到因为一个随身包会产生额外的费用(不然无论如何会给父母揣点现金了),也没有想到机场CHECK IN 人员的素质这么低,不仅扣除脏话还恶意报复,在最开始因为包包拦住的时候, 我母亲因联系不上我,甚至跪下来求她们放行; 最后很激动的请他们让前面行走的中国人回来进行翻译, 凭什么CHECK IN 人员拒绝配合翻译,不让两位老年人登机?

然后致电荷兰航空驻中国办事处,也进行了微信联系:

11月14日再次致电荷兰航空中国办事处,对方答复说,目前案子很多,会请总部尽快答复:并与11月14日07:20答复邮件如下:

We are in the process of studying it and will answer you within 10 days.
Should you wish to provide us added information, please quote your file number above in any
correspondence.
11月14日 08:20 欧洲部答复:

I regret to learn that it was necessary to denied them boarding from flight KL1432.
Unfortunately it is extremely difficult for me to draw an overall conclusion as your complaint and formal staff reports do not entirely agree.
I fully understand the situation was upsetting however we must trust our staff’s judgment in such situations.
We expect our frontline teams to be polite and courteous at all times and will expect the same in return.
Our staff at Birmingham Airport confirmed that Mr Jin and Mrs Zhang’s cabin baggage weighed 18 and 22 kilos and was therefore too heavy to be accepted.
Customers in Economy Class may take the following cabin baggage
•1 x hand baggage max. 55 x 35 x 25 cm
•1 accessory, e.g. a handbag, briefcase or laptop, max. 40 x 30 x 15 cm
•Total weight max. 12 kg
They were informed that it must be checked-in.
Nevertheless, Mr Jin and Mrs Zhang presented the same baggage they had been informed could not be carried into the aircraft, at the boarding gate.
It is regretful that the situation escalated and the police had to be called.
I would like to assure you that this is never a decision taken lightly, but where a passenger is showing signs of extreme disruptiveness that impacts on our operations, we reserve the right to refuse boarding in accordance with Article 9 of our General Conditions of Carriage.
Where a situation can be amicably resolved after the original incident we may propose an alternative reservation and I’m sorry if this could not be achieved.
According to the conditions of the tickets purchased, no changes of reservations were permitted. Your message has requested a refund of the unused portion of the tickets. I regret we are unable to fulfil your request
I hope that despite this incident we can welcome you and your family on board our flights in the future.
11月14日我们答复KLM(只能通过系统录入):
You said: Our staff at Birmingham Airport confirmed that Mr Jin and Mrs Zhang’s cabin baggage weighed 18 and 22 kilos and was therefore too heavy to be accepted. I will ask my lawyer , check CCTV , we take out the things from the backpack, and my husband carry one heavy bag (with chocolate in only) away. And your check in people tagged that two cabin baggage , it was accepted when my parents check in , how can it be 18 and 22 kilos? and the CCTV before the gate can prove my mother use the gesture take all the belongings inside of the package out, only light hat and scarf inside, she put them on and ready to give up the empty bag too. She should have this right too. Why they were still been refused to board on the plane?
11月15日 09:52 对方答复:
We regret that due to an unusually high volume of incoming requests at the moment, we will not be able to reply within our usual timeframe.
11月15日 我方 回复:
To whom it may concerned.

After we made a complaint about the unfair treatment we received from your staff on NOV 6 . The check in lady was not very proffesional infact she was rude and even made a racist remark about Chinese people . I do not think it is correct that your customer care have only considered one side of the story.

As you can see, my husband took back the heavy bagage home, it can be checked through CCTV.
And also from the CCTV, you can see my mom tried to use a gesture to explain, that in her backpack, there was only a hat and scarf, she took them out and wanted to give the bag up at the front of the gate but was not allowed to do so, she can not speak english and tried to find someone who could translate for her, the treatment of two elderly people in there 70,s trying to travel home was disgusting over one small bag that weighed nothing and could have been folded up, i am sure this was revenge for the argument my husband had on one of your staff at the check in gate after he confronted her about her racist remarks…

I am a kind person, and worked as a customer service manager for a long period of time, All the response from the customer we should listen and modify in order to be better. I know both sides should be polite and calm down. But your check in people are not honest, and had a very rude attitude, has i understand it was coming to the end of there shift so they all wanted to go home. but they should not have been rude to there paying customers, I feel so sorry that as a big company you have acted in such a way. I know my mother was in a little panic but at no stage when we were checking in did your staff inform us that the flight had been delayed, .

I am utterly disgusted with the malice and racist treatmnt we received from your staff and after receiving so many emails from other Chinese people who have also had problems this shall be shared in all chinese circles , through all chanels.

I am so sad to see KLM has such low regard for its Chinese customers that when they make a complaint about racist remarks it is ignored.

As I know, KLM as an international company . trying to boost their good image in China. But I don’t understand how you can torlerate your employees to use abusive words to Chinese customers and refuse an old Chinese couples to board the plane as they like. If KLM only listens to one side, and doesn,t even bother to call me back or check the CCTV to investigate whole process and make the fair judgement, take all the descrimation words from the check in people for granted, insist the descrimination and revenge is correct, why consider china market if they don’t like chinese people .

The words replied from J Silverstone (Mr) Customer Care Europe said ‘Our staff at Birmingham Airport confirmed that Mr Jin and Mrs Zhang’s cabin baggage weighed 18 and 22 kilos and was therefore too heavy to be accepted.’.Please check CCTV , we take out the things from the backpack, and my husband carry one heavy bag (with chocolate in only) away. And your check in people tagged that two cabin baggage , it was accepted when my parents check in , how can it be 18 and 22 kilos? and the CCTV before the gate can prove my mother use the gesture take all the belongings inside of the package out, only light hat and scarf inside, she put them on and ready to give up the empty bag too. She should have this right too. Why they were still been refused to board on the plane?

.

11月16日 11:51 对方再次答复:

Passenger-airline contracts also exist solely between the airline and person named on the ticket and this is the case even if the contract has been placed and paid for by a third party.
This is a fundamental tenet of contractual law and not KLM specific.
We will be pleased to discuss the matter with Ms Zhang and Mr Jin although respectfully there is nothing more I can add.
Your right to have your case reviewed independently
Of course, you have the right to seek an independent review of your claim in accordance with these legal regimes by contacting the relevant ‘National Enforcement Body’ in the applicable EU jurisdiction.
In the case of the UK, this is the Consumer Protection Group (CPG) of the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA). Their contact details and other useful advice can be found on www.caa.org.uk
Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) scheme for aviation in the UK
Please note that the Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for the aviation sector in the United Kingdom is www.ombudsman-services.org
Currently KLM is not in a position to participate in this scheme.
It is my hope that you can put this matter in the past as any additional correspondence regarding this matter will only be repetitious.
For this reason we will not respond to this matter again.
我方11月16日答复:
I understand it’s an issue between the customer and airline only, even if it was me who paid for the ticket. But I wish to inform you, my parents have the right to authorize me to represent them as they are back in China and do not speak ENGLISH, and they are not in good health especially after all the unfair treatment they have received recently from your staff.

建议楼主把经历发表到中国比较有名的论坛上,比如天涯论坛什么的,这样国内网友一转,全国哗然,航空公司就会感到压力,我觉得这比你花钱打官司还有力呢。

这个图是荷兰航空中国微信答复的截图; 现场事实跟对方所记录的一切不符; 关于我的都全盘错误,还编排老人的举动;时候证实老人没有大声喊叫和过激行为。

谢谢亲, 我会考虑的; 相信经历了这一切的任何人,如果家中七旬父母遭此待遇,都不会心平气和的。

谢谢亲, 我父母的行李箱子前后没动过,监控录像也可以看到,在家都称过的, 在加上因为不知道航班晚点,又不会英语,老人找着路赶紧去登机了, 哪有闲暇增减东西; 而且从伦敦直飞回去,还是原样的行李箱子,没变过;只是希斯罗机场出于安全考虑,要求把箱子全部打开检查一遍又整理好放回去,全部都一样; 所有航空公司都没有叠加手提行李箱和背包称重的做法,当时被告知不能携带,我老公也是把巧克力包背走了的。